'66 Chiefs vs the rest of NFL...

[Saban1]

I have to admit, I hardly ever watched the AFL until about 1965. Part of the reason for this is because I was in the navy for 4 years during the early 1960's, and I very seldom watched TV in those years. I was on dangerous secret missions much of the time, such as looking around for girls when on liberty. Besides that, where I lived, the local paper didn't have much about the AFL, I guess.

Anyway, I watched a couple of AFL games in 1965 and don't remember being especially impressed (can't remember who the teams were). One day in 1966, I happened to see a game with the Kansas City Chiefs. Then, I was impressed. I thought that the Chiefs looked like a very good football team. I was especially impressed with an end, Otis Taylor. I wasn't sure how they would stack up with the best of the NFL, but I knew that they were a good team.

I guess that I didn't think that they would beat the Green Bay Packers in Super Bowl I, but I thought that they would give the Pack a good game, and they did right up to Willie Wood's interception in the second half. Without that interception, the game may have been a lot closer, but with the defense that Kansas City was in (5-2-4 stack - linebackers behind the tackles instead of outside the ends), Green Bays's split end (Boyd Dowler or Max McGee) figured to have a big game (in restrospect).

Dowler got injured, so McGee played most of the game. The Chief's right cornerback, Willie Mitchell, got little or no help and was in a man to man situation with McGee most of the game. A very difficult situation for Mitchell. I guess that Kansas City was more concerned with Green Bay's running game than they were with the Packers' passing game, which I believe is the reason for their stack defense that day.

So, Kansas City was my favorite AFL team. I think that they did have somewhat of an advantage, having Lamar Hunt as their owner. Hunt was very rich and could outbid anybody during the bidding wars between the AFL and NFL, which probably accounts for the Chiefs having so much talent.

[Saban1]

Lamar Hunt was the main guy in the start of the AFL in 1960. Some say that there still would not have been an AFL without Bud Adams, who was the owner of the Houston Oilers. Hunt and Adams were the first two members of the so-called "foolish club."

Hunt admitted that he had no delusions of testing the NFL's supremacy on the field for awhile. Adam's Houston entry became the AFL's first dominant team, playing in the first three championship games and winning the first two. The Houston Oilers had the best quarterback in George Blanda (at least for the first two years), who had been mostly a backup quarterback for the Chicago Bears during most of the 1950's.

The Oilers also managed to get halfback Billy Cannon, who was probably the most sought after college player in 1960. Cannon was one of the early stars of the AFL. Houston had one of the best defensive teams in the early days of the AFL as well. The Oilers also had good receivers like Charlie Hennigan and Bill Groman, and also NFL veteran tight end Johnny Carson (no relation I think) in 1960, and backs Dave Smith and Charley Tolar, who did well.

Unlike the earlier AAFC, the AFL did not try to challenge the NFL to a Super Bowl type game until 1963, when Sid Gillman (San Diego Chargers head coach) met with Pete Rozelle and made an offer to have his Chargers play the NFL champion Chicago Bears. Rozelle declined the offer.

Lou Saban's Buffalo Bills made no offer that I know of to play the NFL champions of 1964 or 1965. Saban might have thought that his Bills could have beaten the Cleveland Browns in 1964 or the Green Bay Packers in 1965, but as far as I know, no offer like Gillman made in 1963 was ever made. Those games might have been interesting.

So, in 1966, the Kansas City Chiefs played the Green Bay Packers in the first Super Bowl. I suspect that Kansas City was the best AFL team up to that time, but Buffalo may have been pretty good as well. Another thread could be the 1964 or 1965 Buffalo Bills vs the rest of the NFL. I also wonder how good the Bills may have been if Lou Saban stayed in Buffalo throughout the 1960's.

Green Bay was also one of the greatest teams in football history in 1966, so the NFL picked a good year to have the first Super Bowl. Of course, the AFL was in its 7th year in 1966, so they had time to get a lot better, as the Dallas Cowboys did in the NFL that year. By 1969, the AFL in its 10th year had three real good teams in Kansas City, Oakland, and the New York Jets. The Minnesota Vikings, who played in the 4th Super Bowl for the NFL, was only in its 9th year.

[BD Sullivan]

Two 1967 deals hurt the Bills. First, they sent Dave Costa to Denver (with Saban as HC) and then dealt Lamonica to Oakland six weeks later and got a washed up Art Powell and a mediocre Tom Flores. Throw in the fact that they had a draft that really brought nothing and the wheels started coming off.

[Saban1]

Thanks BD. Those were two bad trades for Buffalo. Maybe they would have still been made if Saban was still there. Maybe not. The Buffalo Bills may have still gotten worse if Saban was still there, but not as fast or as far, IMO. It still would have been difficult to keep up with the three top teams, Oakland, Kansas City, and the New York Jets.

[Saban1]

One thing that hurt the progress of the Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs in the earliest years of the AFL was that they didn't sign their territorial pick in 1960, Don Meredith. Meredith instead signed a "personal services" contract with the NFL Dallas Cowboys. Can't really blame Dandy Don. No one knew then if the American Football League would last. I have to wonder what would have happened if Meredith did sign with the Dallas Texans instead of the Dallas Cowboys. Would the Texans still have signed Len Dawson in 1962? If not, then what would have happened with Lenny?

The AFL had a territorial draft in 1960 (as did the USFL in 1983), which was supposed to help attendance with local talent playing for a team in the area that they were from. There was only one round in the AFL territorial draft, and the Dallas Texans got nothing from it. The Houston Oilers got Heisman Trophy winner Billy Cannon, who was the most sought after player coming out of college that year (the Los Angeles Rams made Cannon the first pick in the entire NFL draft that year). Cannon played well for Houston and helped them win the first two AFL championships.

The Texans/Chiefs did pretty well with Len Dawson as their quarterback, but I wonder how they would have done with Don Meredith at quarterback from 1960 on?

[Saban1]

Lamar Hunt was the main guy in the start of the AFL in 1960. Some say that there still would not have been an AFL without Bud Adams, who was the owner of the Houston Oilers. Hunt and Adams were the first two members of the so-called "foolish club."

Hunt admitted that he had no delusions of testing the NFL's supremacy on the field for awhile. Adam's Houston entry became the AFL's first dominant team, playing in the first three championship games and winning the first two. The Houston Oilers had the best quarterback in George Blanda (at least for the first two years), who had been mostly a backup quarterback for the Chicago Bears during most of the 1950's.

The Oilers also managed to get halfback Billy Cannon, who was probably the most sought after college player in 1960. Cannon was one of the early stars of the AFL. Houston had one of the best defensive teams in the early days of the AFL as well. The Oilers also had good receivers like Charlie Hennigan and Bill Groman, and also NFL veteran tight end Johnny Carson (no relation I think) in 1960, and backs Dave Smith and Charley Tolar, who did well.

Unlike the earlier AAFC, the AFL did not try to challenge the NFL to a Super Bowl type game until 1963, when Sid Gillman (San Diego Chargers head coach) met with Pete Rozelle and made an offer to have his Chargers play the NFL champion Chicago Bears. Rozelle declined the offer.

Lou Saban's Buffalo Bills made no offer that I know of to play the NFL champions of 1964 or 1965. Saban might have thought that his Bills could have beaten the Cleveland Browns in 1964 or the Green Bay Packers in 1965, but as far as I know, no offer like Gillman made in 1963 was ever made. Those games might have been interesting.

So, in 1966, the Kansas City Chiefs played the Green Bay Packers in the first Super Bowl. I suspect that Kansas City was the best AFL team up to that time, but Buffalo may have been pretty good as well. Another thread could be the 1964 or 1965 Buffalo Bills vs the rest of the NFL. I also wonder how good the Bills may have been if Lou Saban stayed in Buffalo throughout the 1960's.

Green Bay was also one of the greatest teams in football history in 1966, so the NFL picked a good year to have the first Super Bowl. Of course, the AFL was in its 7th year in 1966, so they had time to get a lot better, as the Dallas Cowboys did in the NFL that year. By 1969, the AFL in its 10th year had three real good teams in Kansas City, Oakland, and the New York Jets. The Minnesota Vikings, who played in the 4th Super Bowl for the NFL, was only in its 9th year.

About the 1963 AFL. Some have said that the San Diego Chargers would have beaten the Chicago Bears in a 1963 Super Bowl, including none other than Otto Graham, but I wonder.

The 1963 Chargers looked pretty impressive in the championship game against the Boston Patriots, but I wonder about their competition in the AFL that year. The only teams in the AFL that won more than half of their games in 1963 were the Chargers and the Oakland Raiders with a 10 and 4 record, and Oakland only won one game in 1962. It was great improvement for the Raiders in 1963, but the fact that only San Diego and Oakland won over 7 games in 1963 makes me wonder if the San Diego Chargers were really that good in 1963, or the rest of the AFL was that bad.

One thing that was good for the Chargers that year was their quarterback, 35 year old Tobin Rote, who was probably the best quarterback of the early AFL in 1963. Rote had a lot of experience in both the NFL and in Canada, and was the type of quarterback that may have been able to pull off a big upset, as he had at times in his NFL years. He definitely could be dangerous.

Of course, I remember only too well how tough George Allen's defensive teams were at Los Angeles and Washington, and Allen was Chicago's defensive coordinator in 1963.

The Houston Oilers had collapsed in 1963 with a 6 and 8 record, and Kansas City only won 5 games that year. So, both participants of the 1962 AFL championship game had losing records in 1963. Oakland, who was the worst team in pro football in 1962 had the 2nd best record in the AFL in 1963. Kind of a strange turn of events in 1963.

San Diego did have some talent in Tobin Rote, Lance Alworth, Keith Lincoln, Paul Lowe, Ernie Ladd, Earl Faison, Ron Mix, backup QB (that year) John Hadl, etc.

I guess that's why they play the game. Too bad they didn't.

[BD Sullivan]

One thing that hurt the progress of the Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs in the earliest years of the AFL was that they didn't sign their territorial pick in 1960, Don Meredith. Meredith instead signed a "personal services" contract with the NFL Dallas Cowboys. Can't really blame Dandy Don. No one knew then if the American Football League would last. I have to wonder what would have happened if Meredith did sign with the Dallas Texans instead of the Dallas Cowboys. Would the Texans still have signed Len Dawson in 1962? If not, then what would have happened with Lenny?

The AFL had a territorial draft in 1960 (as did the USFL in 1983), which was supposed to help attendance with local talent playing for a team in the area that they were from. There was only one round in the AFL territorial draft, and the Dallas Texans got nothing from it. The Houston Oilers got Heisman Trophy winner Billy Cannon, who was the most sought after player coming out of college that year (the Los Angeles Rams made Cannon the first pick in the entire NFL draft that year). Cannon played well for Houston and helped them win the first two AFL championships.

The Texans/Chiefs did pretty well with Len Dawson as their quarterback, but I wonder how they would have done with Don Meredith at quarterback from 1960 on?

Stram still would have signed Dawson since they had a history dating back to Purdue. He supposedly spoke to Stram in Paul Brown's office immediately after being released by the Browns, with PB's blessing. I assume Brown didn't have an issue with him going to the AFL since he couldn't come back to haunt him--until 1968.

[Saban1]

Maybe, but what if Don Meredith was doing very well for the Texans? Would Stram have signed Dawson and then benched Meredith in favor of Dawson?

It did turn out well for Dawson, with Stram being his former college coach and the Texans being one of the best franchises in the AFL, with Lamar Hunt as the owner. Everything was first class. Not true with some of the other teams. A great situation for Dawson. I don't think that the Dallas Texans saw Cotton Davidson as their franchise quarterback. With Meredith there, things might have been different.

[Saban1]

I just recently read this:

George Blanda said that the AFL could have beaten the NFL in a Super Bowl as far back as 1960 and 1961. He said that his receivers on Houston then were as quick and had as much ability to get open as anyone he threw to before or since (Blanda was a backup quarterback for the Chicago Bears for 10 years ending in 1958. I wonder if he included Harlon Hill?). Blanda said that Houston or the LA/San Diego Chargers could have beaten Philadelphia in 1960 or Green Bay in 1961.

He must have said it not too far from that time because George Halas retorted that "The American Football League has to be a Mickey Mouse League. How could it be anything else? Isn't George Blanda a first string quarterback there."

Tex Maule was a writer for Sports Illustrated and said that not any players on Houston could have started for the top four teams in either conference (Eastern or Western) of the NFL, and only one or two could have started for any other NFL team.

I think that Billy Cannon might have started for some of the top teams.

AFL Commissioner Joe Foss said that Titans owner Harry Wismer pushed for challenging the NFL to a championship game, but he was against it (in 1960 or 1961). Foss said that it might ruin any chance for a merger up the road and "We might get our heads handed to us."

I had never heard this before.

[SixtiesFan]

I just recently read this:

George Blanda said that the AFL could have beaten the NFL in a Super Bowl as far back as 1960 and 1961. He said that his receivers on Houston then were as quick and had as much ability to get open as anyone he threw to before or since (Blanda was a backup quarterback for the Chicago Bears for 10 years ending in 1958. I wonder if he included Harlon Hill?). Blanda said that Houston or the LA/San Diego Chargers could have beaten Philadelphia in 1960 or Green Bay in 1961.

He must have said it not too far from that time because George Halas retorted that "The American Football League has to be a Mickey Mouse League. How could it be anything else? Isn't George Blanda a first string quarterback there."

Tex Maule was a writer for Sports Illustrated and said that not any players on Houston could have started for the top four teams in either conference (Eastern or Western) of the NFL, and only one or two could have started for any other NFL team.

I think that Billy Cannon might have started for some of the top teams.

AFL Commissioner Joe Foss said that Titans owner Harry Wismer pushed for challenging the NFL to a championship game, but he was against it (in 1960 or 1961). Foss said that it might ruin any chance for a merger up the road and "We might get our heads handed to us."

I had never heard this before.

In 1962, there was a sports magazine story with a George Blanda byline with this very theme. Blanda said his Houston team could beat the best of the NFL. It wasn't SI or Sport, but one of those magazines you saw on newstands and magazine racks in those days. Wells Twombly, in his 1972 biography of George Blanda, wrote that with George Blanda and Billy Cannon going against Jack Kemp and Paul Lowe, the first AFL Championship game had players at those positions comparable to the NFL's best.