1946 Super Bowl: Browns vs Bears

[Saban1]

This thread was on the old forum, but didn't make it to this forum during the transition. I thought it was an interesting topic, so I'll try to bring it back here.

For those that don't know, there were two major pro football leagues in 1946, the old NFL and the new All-America Conference. The champions of the NFL was the Chicago Bears, and the Cleveland Browns were the champs of the AAFC (All-America Football Conference).

I think that it would have been a matter of experience (Chicago) vs. talent (Cleveland) in this hypothetical match up.

Cleveland was a first year team, but probably the most talented first year team ever. Six of their rookies are in the HOF (Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski), and a couple of others maybe should be (Mac Speedie, Lou Rymkus). Graham was arguably the best quarterback of his time. Lou Groza was the best place kicker. Lavelli and Speedie gave the Browns probably the best pair of pass catching ends of their era (They would later get some competition from the Rams Elroy Hirsch and Tom Fears). They also had the best fullback in Marion Motley who was also a devastating blocker and a crack linebacker as well. Their defense was to lead their league in 10 of 12 seasons in least points allowed starting in 1946.

The 1946 Chicago Bears were good enough to win the NFL Championship, but were really a shell of those "Monsters of Midway" teams that dominated pro football during the early 1940's. Gone were some really good players like HOF linemen George Musso and Dan Fortmann, and also players like HB Ray Nolting, T/K Lee Artoe, and FB Gary Famiglietti. Some may have been past their best like E George Wilson, who was 32, HB Ray McLean 31, Fb Bill Osmanski 31, and T Joe Stydahar 34. Also, the great George McAfee had some kind of injury and only played in 3 games that year.

Sid Luckman was still the quarterback and was one of the best. They had a good end in Ken Kavanaugh and a young Ed Sprinkle, who had signs of greatness, especially on defense. Dante Magnani was a good running back. Four players on that Bears team are in the HOF including Luckman, McAfee, Stydahar, and C/LB Bulldog Turner.

Bulldog Turner was a great one, but I just recently read something of interest about him that might apply to this thread. Turner was talking about Cleveland middle guard Bill Willis, who would have been playing across the line from him in this game. Turner said, "About the first guy that ever convinced me that I couldn't handle anyone I ever met was Bill Willis. They called him The Cat. He would jump right over you."

I had Cleveland winning at Cleveland, Chicago winning at Chicago's Wrigley Field, and I gave the edge to Cleveland on a neutral field. OK, opinions please.

[Bryan]

Cleveland was a first year team, but probably the most talented first year team ever. Six of their rookies are in the HOF (Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski), and a couple of others maybe should be (Mac Speedie, Lou Rymkus).

The 1946 Chicago Bears were good enough to win the NFL Championship, but were really a shell of those "Monsters of Midway" teams that dominated pro football during the early 1940's.

I had Cleveland winning at Cleveland, Chicago winning at Chicago's Wrigley Field, and I gave the edge to Cleveland on a neutral field. OK, opinions please.

I agree with your assessment. The Bears of 1946 were kind of a team in transition, going from those great early 1940's teams to a very competitive but not as great 1950's squad. The NFL in 1946 seemed to be a 'down' year in general, and I don't think the 1946 Bears were one of the outstanding title teams in league history. I think the Browns beat them head-to-head.

IMO, the most amazing thing about that Browns dynasty was how many of their initial 1946 group of players ended up having a big impact in the NFL from 1950-1955. Lou Saban is the only guy I can think of that was a key player on those AAFC Browns teams who did not continue to play in the NFL. Paul Brown was able to essentially "form" a dynasty team in one offseason, and that Cleveland Browns team was great from the start. It would be like the 1960 Dallas Texans getting Len Dawson, Otis Taylor, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Jan Stenerud, and Buck Buchanan all at once.

[Saban1]

Cleveland was a first year team, but probably the most talented first year team ever. Six of their rookies are in the HOF (Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski), and a couple of others maybe should be (Mac Speedie, Lou Rymkus).

The 1946 Chicago Bears were good enough to win the NFL Championship, but were really a shell of those "Monsters of Midway" teams that dominated pro football during the early 1940's.

I had Cleveland winning at Cleveland, Chicago winning at Chicago's Wrigley Field, and I gave the edge to Cleveland on a neutral field. OK, opinions please.

I agree with your assessment. The Bears of 1946 were kind of a team in transition, going from those great early 1940's teams to a very competitive but not as great 1950's squad. The NFL in 1946 seemed to be a 'down' year in general, and I don't think the 1946 Bears were one of the outstanding title teams in league history. I think the Browns beat them head-to-head.

IMO, the most amazing thing about that Browns dynasty was how many of their initial 1946 group of players ended up having a big impact in the NFL from 1950-1955. Lou Saban is the only guy I can think of that was a key player on those AAFC Browns teams who did not continue to play in the NFL. Paul Brown was able to essentially "form" a dynasty team in one offseason, and that Cleveland Browns team was great from the start. It would be like the 1960 Dallas Texans getting Len Dawson, Otis Taylor, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Jan Stenerud, and Buck Buchanan all at once.

Thanks for the response. Good analogy about the 1960 Dallas Texans getting Dawson, Taylor, Bell, Lanier, Stenerud, and Buchanan all at once.

Actually, Cleveland lost about twelve players going into the NFL in 1950 including not only Saban, but Edgar "Special Delivery" Jones, Ed Ulinski, Bob Gaudio, Bill Boedecker, John Yonakor and Joe Spencer in the mix. Jones was Cleveland's 2nd leading rusher in the AAFC and Boedecker was 3rd. Ed Ulinski was Cleveland's best guard (if you go by his being named to the AAFC 2nd team All-League team twice (1946 and 1948)), and Gaudio was another good guard. John Yonakor was one of the best defensive ends in the AAFC. Spencer backed up defensive tackles Darrell Palmer and Chubby Grigg, but Cleveland got tackles Kissel and rookie Sandusky in 1950. Spencer could also play offensive tackle and started at that position for Green Bay in 1950(Paul Brown wanted to start trading with an NFL team and Green Bay was desperate for tackles).

So, Cleveland lost a lot going into 1950 and it would have been difficult to replace them with a dozen rookies. I am sure that is why Brown made the deal with Buffalo getting Rex Baumgardner, John Kissell and Abe Gibron. They also got Len Ford and Hal Herring in the AAFC dispersal draft, even though they were one of the last teams to pick. They also got seven rookies in the draft, but the only one that started in 1950 was safety Ken Gorgal.

It was tough for Cleveland entering the NFL in 1950. All of the NFL wanted Cleveland to fail in the NFL and it was difficult for Cleveland to find anyone to trade with, and the Browns did lose about a dozen players from their 1949 team. The Browns did make a couple of trades with Green Bay and The New York Yanks and Cleveland gave Yonakor to the Yanks and Spencer to the Packers and got little in return. Paul Brown knew that up the road he would need trading partners and was trying to establish that.

Anyway, back to 1946 and the Browns and Bears of that year.

[Saban1]

I checked it out and 11 players were gone from the 1949 Cleveland Browns. The Browns took on 12 new players in 1950 including 7 rookies, 3 Buffalo Bills in a deal where the Buffalo owner got part ownership of the Cleveland Browns and some money may have changed hands, but I don't know about that. Also, Cleveland got Len Ford and Hal Herring in the dispersal draft of AAFC players. Herring was Cleveland's first choice and it was hoped that he could replace Lou Saban at right linebacker. Saban had decided to start a coaching career. Weldon Humble was also a candidate for Saban's position.

Cleveland was second from last to pick in this draft of former AAFC players and used their second pick for DE and future Hall of Famer Len Ford. So, every team passed on Ford and most passed on him twice in that draft. As it turned out, Len Ford only played in 5 games during the regular season in 1950 due to a broken jaw inflicted by Pat Harder, who slugged Ford in a game with the Chicago Cardinals. Rookie Jim Martin took Ford's place during the rest of the regular season and most of the playoff game with the Giants and the NFL Championship game against the Rams.

Anyway, apparently the player limit in the 1949 AAFC was 32 players and it must have been 33 players for the 1950 NFL, which would explain the extra player in 1950.

In the mean time, back in 1946, Cleveland did have 6 players that ended up in the HOF, and 2 more that probably should have, but Lou Groza and Frank Gatski were not big factors yet that year, except for Groza's kicking.

For Chicago, there were 4 players that ended up in the Hall, but tackle Joe Stydahar was 34 and in his last season, and I am not sure how much playing time he got that year and how effective he was. George McAfee did not play much during the regular season, but did play in the championship game against the Giants as did Sid Luckman and the Bulldog.

More about the 1946 Super Bowl later, but so far it is 2 to 0 in favor of Cleveland.

[Saban1]

Before we are too quick to give the 1946 Super Bowl win to the Cleveland Browns, let's take a closer look at the 1946 Bears. They had a really good offensive line with guys like tackles Fred Davis and Ed Kolman, guards Ray Bray and Chuck Drulis, center Bulldog Turner, and ends Ken Kavanaugh, Ed Sprinkle, George Wilson and Jim Keane. With a tough defensive line and linebackers, would Chicago's veteran line play chew up Cleveland's younger lines and rule the day? Interesting question.

Cleveland did have some veteran players of their own, like center/linebacker Mo Scarry, who played for the champion Rams in 1945 and was named 2nd team All-Pro in the NFL that year. Then there was tackle Lou Rymkus, who had played in the NFL in 1943 and apparently did OK against the best of the NFL. The rest of the offensive line was manned by rookies like guards Lin Houston and Ed Ulinski, tackle Ernie Blandin, and ends Lavelli and Speedie. Also, fullback Marion Motley could help with the pass blocking. With the defensive line, Bill Willis could cause some problems as Bulldog Turner alluded to. Chet Adams was a good tackle in the NFL before coming to the Browns. Defensive ends Yonakor and Young were two of the better defensive ends in the AAFC, but were they that good in 1946?

Cleveland did handle a veteran New York Yankees team in 1946 (the Yankees took an entire team of players out of the NFL in 1946 (the Brooklyn Dodgers) to help form the Yankees), beating them 3 times, and the Yankees had one of the best pro football coaches in Hall of Fame coach Ray Flaherty. They also had tackle Bruiser Kinard and tailback Ace Parker, who are in the HOF, and all-pro types Bruce Alford, Jack Russell, Lou Sossamon, Nate Johnson, Perry Schwartz, Bob Masterson, Pug Manders, Lowell Wagner, and Spec Sanders. I believe that the New York Yankees were the early favorites to be the first champions of the new All-America Conference.

So. if the Browns could handle the New York Yankees in 1946, could they also handle the rough and tough veteran Chicago Bears in 1946? I guess that's why they play the game. Unfortunately, they didn't.

[Saban1]

Cleveland was a first year team, but probably the most talented first year team ever. Six of their rookies are in the HOF (Otto Graham, Marion Motley, Dante Lavelli, Bill Willis, Lou Groza, and Frank Gatski), and a couple of others maybe should be (Mac Speedie, Lou Rymkus).

The 1946 Chicago Bears were good enough to win the NFL Championship, but were really a shell of those "Monsters of Midway" teams that dominated pro football during the early 1940's.

I had Cleveland winning at Cleveland, Chicago winning at Chicago's Wrigley Field, and I gave the edge to Cleveland on a neutral field. OK, opinions please.

I agree with your assessment. The Bears of 1946 were kind of a team in transition, going from those great early 1940's teams to a very competitive but not as great 1950's squad. The NFL in 1946 seemed to be a 'down' year in general, and I don't think the 1946 Bears were one of the outstanding title teams in league history. I think the Browns beat them head-to-head.

IMO, the most amazing thing about that Browns dynasty was how many of their initial 1946 group of players ended up having a big impact in the NFL from 1950-1955. Lou Saban is the only guy I can think of that was a key player on those AAFC Browns teams who did not continue to play in the NFL. Paul Brown was able to essentially "form" a dynasty team in one offseason, and that Cleveland Browns team was great from the start. It would be like the 1960 Dallas Texans getting Len Dawson, Otis Taylor, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, Jan Stenerud, and Buck Buchanan all at once.

I really like Bryan's comparison of the Browns 1946 team and the Dallas Texan's 1960 AFL team if they got Dawson, Buchanan, Stenerud, Bell, Lanier, and Taylor that first year. The Texan's certainly would have been the team to beat in the AFL in 1960 if they had those players.

The Browns had Graham and the Texans would have had Dawson. Graham started out great in 1946 as Dawson did for Dallas in 1962. You can compare Groza with Stenerud, who were the best field goal kickers of their time. Bell could be compared to Lou Saban, who were probably the best outside linebackers of their respective leagues.

Kansas City had Otis Taylor and Cleveland had Lavelli and Speedie. I would compare Lanier with Bill Willis, who played his middle guard position like a middle linebacker. Not just my opinion, but also Paul Brown's.

Don't think Cleveland in 1946 had an answer for Buchanan. Cleveland led their league in defense that year, but didn't have any huge defensive linemen like Buck. The Browns best may have been John Yonakor or Chet Adams. Then there was middle guard Willis, who wasn't very big, but was very quick.

Of course, Cleveland had Marion Motley, who was not only the best fullback of his era, but also a very good linebacker. Dallas had Abner Haynes in 1960, who was one of the best of the early AFL.

I should have mentioned that the 1946 Bears had a pretty good backfield in 1946 with not only Luckman, but Dante Magnani and Hugh Gallarneau at the halfback positions and the Osmanski brothers at fullback. Chicago led the NFL in points scored that year and must have had a very good running game. The Bears relied more on the run as did most teams of that era, as opposed the the Browns that relied more on their passing game, although Cleveland did have runners like Marion Motley and Special Delivery Jones, who averaged 7 yards per carry in 1946 (Motley averaged 8.2 yards per carry).

Don't forget: Which ever team comes out ahead in the voting here would have definitely won the 1946 Super Bowl between the Browns and the Bears.

[Saban1]

Cleveland's two starting defensive tackles in 1946 during the regular season were Chet Adams and Ernie Blandin. A few days before the 1946 AAFC Championship game, Head Coach Paul Brown fired starting offensive left tackle Jim Daniell. Taking his place in the title game was Ernie Blandin. So, if Blandin was playing offensive tackle, then who was the main defensive tackle that day along with Adams? Whoever it was probably would have been one of the main defensive tackles for the Super Bowl against the Bears, if there was such a game. Anyone know?

I surmised that Lou Groza was now one of the main defensive tackles for the Browns against the Yankees, but it turns out that Groza had a sprained ankle and missed 3 field goals in the title game possibly as a result of that (Chet Adams missed a fourth one for Cleveland that day). So, in light of the sprained ankle, Groza may not have been the DT, even though he did play defensive tackle at times before becoming the starting offensive left tackle in 1948.

Another possibility is John Yonakor, who was usually the starting defensive right end, but could and sometimes did play defensive tackle for Cleveland. John Harrington, a reserve end for Cleveland in 1946, did play in the championship game that year, so it is possible that Yonakor was moved to defensive tackle for that game and Harrington played defensive end in Yonakor's place.

Maybe Blandin or OT Lou Rymkus did double duty on offense and defense that day, but I doubt that Paul Brown would have had Blandin doing double duty in his first game as starting offensive left tackle. Of course, without free substitution in 1946, Blandin and Rymkus had to play defense on a change of possession until a substitution could be made, but both could play defense, especially for a few plays when they had to.

A tackle named Len Simonetti was activated from the taxi squad just a few days before the championship game, so there is a remote possibility that he was used to replace Blandin on defense, but it doesn't seem like the Browns would chance using someone just off the taxi squad to play most of the game on the defensive line. Simonetti did play in the game though.

I suppose that there are other possibilities, like a reserve guard being used at the DT position, or Frank Gatski, who was a backup center and linebacker, but was as big as a lot of tackles in those days, and did play in the title game.

[single wing]

I believe that the New York Yankees were the early favorites to be the first champions of the new All-America Conference.

In a Major Poll of sportswriters before the start of the 1946 AAFC season the Chicago Rockets were considered the favorite to win the AAFC title. OF course we all know in the end the Rockets were a complete bust finishing last in the West division.
I

[Saban1]

I believe that the New York Yankees were the early favorites to be the first champions of the new All-America Conference.

In a Major Poll of sportswriters before the start of the 1946 AAFC season the Chicago Rockets were considered the favorite to win the AAFC title. OF course we all know in the end the Rockets were a complete bust finishing last in the West division.
I

Thank you very much. I didn't know that. I thought that the Yankees would have been the favorite based on them bringing in an NFL team to form the nucleus of the Yankees. Also, their head coach was Ray Flaherty, who was considered one of the best head coaches in pro football and led the Washington Redskins to 2 NFL Championships (1937 and 1942).

BTW, do you have an opinion on who would win the first hypothetical Super Bowl in 1946 between the Chicago Bears and the Cleveland Browns?

[Saban1]

In a comparison of any two teams, a good place to start would be at quarterback, and both the Bears and Browns in 1946 had great ones.

Start with Otto Graham for Cleveland. A possible knock on Otto was that he was a rookie in 1946. Despite that, his passing numbers were about the best of his career, although they were pretty close in 1953 except for the championship game.

The lack of experience may not have hurt Graham that much because Paul Brown maybe called most or all of the plays, so Otto just had to execute them. A young and hungry Graham may have been better in his AAFC years than in his NFL years. Graham was 24 years old when the 1946 season started. and was probably a better athlete then than when he was in his 30's, as most people are. I am sure that he could run faster, and his arm was probably stronger. Also, I think that his nerves were better.

Right up through 1950, I think that Graham had great nerves, and was determined to prove that he and the Cleveland team were the best football team in any league. After 1950, Graham and the Browns had proved it by almost anyone's measure, so then it was a matter of proving it again over and over. and this probably got tiring to Otto and maybe some of the other Browns.

In 1952, Otto Graham admitted in a book that his attitude reeked. He was getting weary of going through the training camps and the separations from his family. He also said that he was a nervous wreck before games from the time he got up on game day. Especially after 1951, the pressure just seemed to get worse and worse. Even in 1952, Otto was thinking of retirement. Therefore, I really believe that Graham was better in his AAFC years than he was in the NFL years, even though he was voted NFL MVP 3 times in 6 years, and I don't think that they even had an award in one of those years.

I suppose that some would say that Graham's numbers were so good in 1946 (over 10.5 yards per passing attempt and a passer rating of 112.1) because the AAFC defenses in the new league were not as sophisticated as they were in the older NFL. Could be some truth in that, but the New York Yankees had a tough defense, and I believe that it would have been tough in any league.

Luckman was one of the all-tome greats at quarterback and has the second highest career yards per passing attempt. at 8.42 (Otto Graham has the highest at 8.63, but that is just for his NFL years).

Luckman had great stats overall, but if you look closely, you might see that 1946 was a year that Sid started to decline a little bit, and by 1949, Johnny Lujack was doing most of the quarterbacking for the Chicago Bears.

In 1946, Sid Luckman's completion average was 48%, his lowest since 1940, his second season as a pro. Sid threw 16 interception in 1946, which was his highest ever to that point (he threw 31 the following year). Luckman's passer rating was 71.0, which was low for him. In 1946, his yards per attempt was 7.97 compared with 8.96 on 1940, 9.92 in 1941, 9.75 in 1942, and 10.86 in 1943. So, you can kind of see that 1946 was not a vintage year for Sid Luckman. Of course, Sid did not have quite the supporting cast that he had in the years 1940-43. He was still good enough to lead the Chicago Bears to the NFL Championship in 1946.

Well, those are some facts and opinions about two of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. I will leave it to others to judge who was greater in 1946.