Manning/Favre vs. Favre/Strahan

[Bryan]

Maybe I am connecting too many dots, but hear me out.

The media and public opinion were highly critical of Brett Favre laying down so Michael Strahan could get the single-season sack record (on a play that shouldn't have been ruled a "sack" in the first place, but...). Lots of talk about the integrity of record-breaking specifically and the integrity of the game in general.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and you have a less-than-100% Peyton Manning literally throwing away his team's chance at victory so he can break Farve's career passing yardage record. Yet the only media reaction I have heard is rhetorically asking "Was that Peyton Manning's last game?". Where is the outrage? Where is the talk about the integrity of the game? Where is the thought that Manning's record is tainted because the statistical achievement was in direct contrast to his team's ability to win the game?

[SixtiesFan]

Maybe I am connecting too many dots, but hear me out.

The media and public opinion were highly critical of Brett Favre laying down so Michael Strahan could get the single-season sack record (on a play that shouldn't have been ruled a "sack" in the first place, but...). Lots of talk about the integrity of record-breaking specifically and the integrity of the game in general.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and you have a less-than-100% Peyton Manning literally throwing away his team's chance at victory so he can break Farve's career passing yardage record. Yet the only media reaction I have heard is rhetorically asking "Was that Peyton Manning's last game?". Where is the outrage? Where is the talk about the integrity of the game? Where is the thought that Manning's record is tainted because the statistical achievement was in direct contrast to his team's ability to win the game?

Ever seen some O.J. Simpson performances? The Bills would give him the ball when trailing instead of throwing passes to try to get back in the game. O.J would literally run out the clock for the other team while padding his rushing yardage.

[conace21]

Peyton didn't suit up to break Favre's record. He suited up because he hates to miss a play, let alone a game. I have little doubt that Peyton would have tried to play, regardless of whether any records were at stake.

The Bills would indeed give the ball to OJ even in the waning moments of a game, but there was good reason for it. The Bills had a miserable passing game, in 1973 and the second half of 1976. OJ broke the single game rushing record against Detroit by repeatedly carrying the ball, down 27-7 in the 4th quarter. But with Gary Marangi going 4 of 21, what were the odds the Bills would have scored that last touchdown while throwing?

[Bryan]

Peyton didn't suit up to break Favre's record. He suited up because he hates to miss a play, let alone a game. I have little doubt that Peyton would have tried to play, regardless of whether any records were at stake.

I can't say definitively if Peyton suited up just to break Favre's record, but I'm almost positive Peyton won't play this week now that he has the record. My qualm is more with Kubiak for 1) playing Manning at all, and 2) leaving Manning in just to break the record. Its kind of like McKay and Wilder in 1984, except its worse IMO because the Broncos had a good shot to win the game had Kubiak benched Manning sooner.

[mwald]

Maybe I am connecting too many dots, but hear me out.

The media and public opinion were highly critical of Brett Favre laying down so Michael Strahan could get the single-season sack record (on a play that shouldn't have been ruled a "sack" in the first place, but...). Lots of talk about the integrity of record-breaking specifically and the integrity of the game in general.

Fast forward to this past weekend, and you have a less-than-100% Peyton Manning literally throwing away his team's chance at victory so he can break Farve's career passing yardage record. Yet the only media reaction I have heard is rhetorically asking "Was that Peyton Manning's last game?". Where is the outrage? Where is the talk about the integrity of the game? Where is the thought that Manning's record is tainted because the statistical achievement was in direct contrast to his team's ability to win the game?

Funny you should bring this up. Last night I happened to be browsing YouTube when I ran across an eight minute video of the night Larry Bird scored 60 points on the Atlanta Hawks. By his last couple baskets they were just feeding him the ball while the Hawks stood there and watched, essentially letting him get 60. Watching that, I was reminded of Favre/Strahan.

I don't agree with it, but it's apparently a phenomenon that happens and not just in football. They help you break the record. And yeah, Manning will do that as often if not more than anyone. He cares about personal records.

But when you are one of the biggest postseason underachievers ever, maybe that's what you care about.

[JohnH19]

Good lord...Manning didn't play just to break any friggin record. That's ridiculous. The man deserves more respect than that. He played because he's Peyton Manning and, like Brett Favre, that's what he does.

[oldecapecod11]

by JohnH19 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:01 pm
"Good lord...Manning didn't play just to break any friggin record. That's ridiculous. The man deserves more respect than that. He played because he's Peyton Manning and, like Brett Favre, that's what he does."

Thank Heaven there are still some here who are aware of this.
There are times it seems we are overrun with the types of cowards who ran to Canada, burned their draft cards or spit on soldiers.
It is the likes of Manning and Favre and Brady who keep on because - as you say - it is what they do.
Those children who spend their time browsing the pits of things like "YouTube" apparently do so because they have neither
the incentive nor the intellect to search for substance.
"Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?" Peyton, Brett and Tom carried on in your tradition.

[rhickok1109]

Good lord...Manning didn't play just to break any friggin record. That's ridiculous. The man deserves more respect than that. He played because he's Peyton Manning and, like Brett Favre, that's what he does.

I agree with that.

[SixtiesFan]

Peyton didn't suit up to break Favre's record. He suited up because he hates to miss a play, let alone a game. I have little doubt that Peyton would have tried to play, regardless of whether any records were at stake.

The Bills would indeed give the ball to OJ even in the waning moments of a game, but there was good reason for it. The Bills had a miserable passing game, in 1973 and the second half of 1976. OJ broke the single game rushing record against Detroit by repeatedly carrying the ball, down 27-7 in the 4th quarter. But with Gary Marangi going 4 of 21, what were the odds the Bills would have scored that last touchdown while throwing?

Your point is well taken, but I'm not the only one to notice. Jim Brown commented a few times on how the Bills seemed to be more concerned with O.J.'s numbers than winning games and/or building toward a championship team. Was this just sour grapes on Brown's part? Well, it has come up elsewhere.

The December 1974 issue of Sport Magazine had a cover story, "Is O.J. Simpson Better Than Jimmy Brown?" The article quoted several men who had played against both Brown and Simpson. An interesting consensus was the relative weakness of Simpson's Bills compared to Brown's Browns meant that Simpson could get extra "easy" yardage and Brown extra "tough" yardage. Pittsburgh Steeler linebacker Andy Russell said:

"Cleveland had a great passer in Frank Ryan and some great receivers. They wouldn't run Brown on third-and-long--when it's easy for a runner to pick up five or ten yards. But Buffalo would run Simpson in that kind of situation. They'd be four touchdowns behind, third-and-17, and call a running play for Simpson"

This Sport Magazine piece raised some interesting points and is worth finding for anyone interested in the subject. The majority opinion held that Jim Brown was still the best as of 1974. The writer was unaware that ex-Packer Willie Davis (one of the experts interviewed) played in 1958-59 for Cleveland, describing Davis along with Russell, Ray Nitschke, Deacon Jones, and Merlin Olsen as "never teammates of either man."

On the America's Game episode for the 1973 Miami Dolphins, Mercury Morris remarked that the Bills kept feeding O.J. the ball in a game at Buffalo to help his yardage and said something like "Our team wasn't like that." In other words, winning counting, not stats.

I'm not taking anything away from O.J. Simpson as a runner. I always enjoyed watching him on TV. He was playing the game his team (especially when Lou Saban was there) wanted.

[BD Sullivan]

In 1979, Harold Carmichael needed one pass reception to set the then-new record for consecutive games with a reception. On the Eagles' first offensive play from scrimmage, Jaworski stepped back and threw the ball to Carmichael, who grabbed it and was quickly tackled. Kind of a lame way to get it, but the integrity of the NFL lived on.

It was also during this time that Bud Grant would start a past-his-prime Jim Marshall on the Viking DL so that he could continue his streak of consecutive starts. After that first series, Marshall could usually be found glued to the bench for the rest of the game.